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Re: [ProgSoc] Drying up, hands or money



Roland Turner wrote:
On Sun, 2007-08-19 at 01:43 +1000, John Elliot wrote:
Can you imagine a world in which dialects and symbols, rather than adhering to their distinct delineated categories, fused?
Symbols? (Not creoles?)
I was thinking along the lines of mathematics. Concepts and symbols 
taken from a global community and hacked into something greater than the 
sum of its parts.
Who knows... maybe you'd learn something? :)
I'm certain that we would, but I suspect that the odds are low for the
same reason that Quebec will continue to speak French (well, Quebcoise)
pretty much forever.
That reminds me... I had a mate called Françoise from Quebec who taught 
me to juggle (he used to be a clown in a circus). He also helped me 
translate Bullet With Butterfly Wings into French... we used to sing it 
together while working in the kitchen... I think it sounded cooler in 
French. :)
Le monde est un vampire...

Language is an element of cultural identity
Sure it is. I think my point was that more and more people are feeling 
comfortable identifying themselves with aspects of a "global" culture.
I mean... where are you right now? ...but, you're talking to us here?

the economic forces which drive the adoption of a common language also
intensify the forces that seek to preserve cultural heritage.
So what? There's no reason to abandon your heritage. That you identify 
with your family, country, or religious traditions is no reason not to 
*also* participate in something new. I.e. a global community. If you 
don't, you're increasingly irrelevant anyway.
(Seen my tattoo? [1] ;)

(Stated crudely: the greater the economic pressures on Quebecois[e]
to communicate in English, the harder they'll push to protect their
heritage. e.g. the day may come when Section 16's[1] exclusivity is
enforced.).
Again, so what? I think the point is that no-one's going to "push" 
anyone, it's just going to happen. Or, to the extent that there is 
"pushing" it will be the old people from local communities pushing the 
young people, who, er, won't do what they're told. Stated crudely: all 
the kids are going gay... or emo... or both. (Hey, buy a lifestyle!)
I guess the thrust of one of my points throughout this thread has been 
that globalisation had better end up offing more than "consumerism" and 
"the brand" -- because that's not a vehicle for "progress", primarily 
because it isn't an honest reflection of "value".
I think people will identify just as much with aspects of various global 
subcultures (hey, pick a subculture!) as much as they identify with any 
aspect of their 'local' traditions. For instance, identifying with their 
trade, or other communities built around their interests. Artificially 
imposed cultural hegemony won't work... because people are the arbiters 
of their own values, and most people can see a whole lot of other 
interesting stuff going on in the world that they're interested in being 
a part of, and what's more: they can be! So... er, they will. Duh. :P
[1] http://www.jj5.net/file/2007-03-13-061942/a.jpg












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