[ProgSoc] Hello, world

John Elliot V jj5 at jj5.net
Mon Aug 28 18:52:34 AEST 2017


When I joined this club, seventeen years ago, I got hurled into a
culture where grievances were raised publicly, and resolved publicly.
Busy people made straight-forward assertive statements about their
thoughts, and frankly, at first, it was brutal. But that was the culture
here. You came to understand that these were good, well-intentioned
people, who were just trying to *help you* to figure out what's right.
I'm happy to concede that things change, and I'm not going to dictate
how things should be done around here.

Love,
John.

On 28/08/17 18:39, John Elliot V wrote:
> Sorry. I don't aspire to be toxic! :P
> 
> I mentioned StackOverflow, because AIUI, the modus operandi over there
> is not to say "thank you", etc. Everything is strictly "on topic" all
> the time. I truly didn't mean to be offensive.
> 
> Anyway. Maybe it would be best if I crawled back into my hole...
> 
> On 28/08/17 11:48, Priscilla Yuen wrote:
>> Good points in your original email. And many in subsequent ones too.
>>
>> I was even nodding in agreement ... up until that last line directing
>> someone to go away to stackoverflow.
>>
>>> This list is a place for a friendly public chat. If you are going to
>> call polite inclusive public conversation "noise", then perhaps you
>> would be better served by another forum:
>> https://stackoverflow.com/
>>
>> That was when it became clear that your reasonable, polite message was
>> aiming to publically shame someone who I understood was trying to
>> working out a grievance in private first.
>>
>> It's no less toxic.
>>
>> On 24/08/2017 2:50 PM, "John Elliot V" <jj5 at jj5.net
>> <mailto:jj5 at jj5.net>> wrote:
>>
>>     I'm sitting here killing time waiting to get on my train to the
>>     city, so...
>>
>>     On 24/08/17 12:55, John Elliot V wrote:
>>     > If people fear that their contributions are potentially going to be
>>     > labeled "noise" or otherwise not valued, they may very well be
>>     afraid to
>>     > make any sort of contribution at all. If that happens, the mailing
>>     list
>>     > goes dormant, and thereby has no value. (Thinking about it,
>>     perhaps that
>>     > is what has happened around here in recent years.)
>>
>>     I would like to know how long it's been going on around here that people
>>     have taken it upon themselves to post to people off-list telling them
>>     that it's not OK for them to post on-list.
>>
>>     That is just about the most toxic thing that could be going on. It might
>>     have been well intentioned, but it is unproductive and wrong. And
>>     because it happens off-list, no-one can see it happen and correct
>>     for it.
>>
>>     I'm a little disheartened that I sent messages to Xu, Lewys, and Jacob,
>>     and didn't get a reply one way or another from any of them. Has ignoring
>>     people become the status quo around here? Or are you guys really so
>>     petrified of being called "noise" that you don't reply?
>>
>>     Anyway. See a few of you in a couple of hours.
>>
>>     Regards,
>>     John Elliot V
>>     --
>>     E: jj5 at jj5.net <mailto:jj5 at jj5.net>
>>     P: +61 4 3505 7839 <tel:%2B61%204%203505%207839>
>>     W: https://www.jj5.net/
>>
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> 
> 
> 
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-- 
E: jj5 at jj5.net
P: +61 4 3505 7839
W: https://www.jj5.net/
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