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Re: [ProgSoc] Text editors/Web dev apps for the Mac



Roland Turner wrote:
Actually I fully support closed source in a variety of contexts,
Really? What others?
For the most part, I view not having the source to software I own in the 
same way that I view not having the schematics to my MP3 player, not 
having the patterns for the clothes I wear, not having the recipes for 
restaurant food that I eat, etc: more or less inconvenient (if I wish to 
repair my MP3 player, replace a damaged shirt, or recreate that 
delicious malai kofta). The fact that doing some of these things 
requires expensive resources not available to most people is irrelevant 
to me, because having the appropriate programming knowledge to make 
changes to code is also an expensive resource (in terms of time) not 
available to most people.
The common response to this is "but even if only a tiny fraction of 
those people who have the source code are capable of (or inclined to) do 
anything useful with it, that is still a win, because everyone will 
benefit from the actions of these few people". This is true, but I don't 
think this argument is a sufficient differentiator to make software so 
different to clothes, food, or consumer electronics that we should 
*mandate* that its source code not be a secret.
There are some exceptions. Code written with taxpayers' money should be 
open (I think it already is, but I'm not sure). Hardware manufacturers 
should get their act together and stop relying on trade secrets, because 
there are real advantages (to users and the manufacturers themselves) of 
having the code available as a specification (admittedly, a bad 
alternative to an *actual* specification, but let's take what we can get).
I take it that you understand the special significance of the printer
example to any discussion about the Gnu GPL?
Yep. And device drivers remain one of the best examples of software that 
should be FSS-libre in my opinion, both because you can make a strong 
security argument, and because there is a material cost to their being 
closed (hardware becoming useless). It is difficult to argue with "I can 
keep using hardware I paid for". It is harder to make this same case 
convincingly about the several thousand text editors on freshmeat.net.
It's difficult to make these same arguments for Pokemon Distressed Tangerine Edition for the DS.
The problem with the DS et al isn't so much that the applications are
closed (the meaningful freedom that opening them would provide seems
rather minimal), but that the platform is.
[snip "closed platforms -> closed-platform-accepting society" argument(if I read it correctly)]
I think you have made a good argument in the "price of freedom / eternal 
vigilance" vein, but you have not made a good argument that everybody 
should give up their pokemans.
I realise you didn't intend to, and I guess this is what I was headed: 
it's quite a long way from "Microsoft wants to get in bed with the 
government and big content providers like the MPAA to limit your ability 
to record and re-watch movies, listen to music, or skip ads" to 
"therefore all game consoles are off limits".
This is where Stallman is coming from.
I think you're right about this, but I think at this point we are both 
making assumptions about where Stallman is coming from. I'm not trying 
to be rude, but it's worth pointing out that (afaik) we are now not in 
the realm of actual quotes from RMS.
- N

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