[ProgSoc] VSU (Was: What should the exec do? (Was: Scrap VSU info from UTS Union))

Andrew Halliday andrew.halliday at gmail.com
Mon Mar 9 23:10:57 EST 2009


On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:32 PM, jedd <jedd at progsoc.org> wrote:

> On Mon Mar 9 2009, Anand Kumria wrote:
>


> <snip>
> > Andi's theory is that the tax imposed by the Union provides a
> > "necessary and critical service" (a social scene).
> >
> > So far none of the arguments presented counter that.
>
>  While I feel your pain wrt stamp duty (etc), note that Andi's
>  argument is consistently along the lines of :
>
>  "Other people force you to pay money, so why can't the union?"
>

Actually, my argument is more along the lines of "If you live in a society
you must participate and contribute to support that society"

If you don't want to pay tax then go somewhere that doesn't require you to
(and enjoy the excellent services and representation there) or vote for your
party of choice that will deliver such an outcome to you in the next
relevant election.

 This is grossly flawed, logically and ethically.  It presumes, among
>  other things, that any precedent whatsoever implies righteousness
>  for a given action.


Sounding a little righteous right now, aren't you, Jedd? Do you need a hand
down from that soapbox?

A University is run like an enterprise and like a public service. It is
designed to act as an educational institution and supply support services to
students to ensure equality of access and convenient access to education.
Such Union and SA services accomplish this.

Your analogy is flawed. You ignore that many of these services were created
due to social demand by the student population combined with the observed
need by administrators who were looking to be socially responsible as a
matter of duty of care to the student body. To say that this has all been
forced upon students unfairly is unfounded.

Perhaps the best way is to have a campus referendum. Honestly I think that
most won't oppose the issue because the cost over an average degree is about
$1000- and it's HECS deferrable. I pay  $936- per SUBJECT at Uni. If it's
deferrable I'm hardly going to quibble about it and I doubt too many others
will either.

Precedent does not imply righteousness but it does sometimes imply that
there were and maybe still are good, valid reasons for MSU. The issue here
is if the community is empowered or disadvantaged by VSU, not the
individual. That's why we pay taxes. For the betterment and maintenance of
our communities and society. That is why MSU is important and that is where
VSU has failed.

The problem is that folks such as yourself continually try and cast yourself
as an entity separate to the rest of the community in which you live and the
society in which you exist. Such organisations are not here to do your
bidding. They're here to do 'our' collective bidding.

Andi.
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