[ProgSoc] [ADMIN] HTTPS on www, webmail

John Elliot jj5 at jj5.net
Thu Aug 25 13:20:44 EST 2011


On 25/08/2011 1:01 PM, Pat Morgan wrote:
> John, you've put a lot of effort into Progclub&  invested a lot of time and
> money. Now I may be just the 'top-poster' guy who occasionally mispells
> things, but I do know it could be argued that it's a bit inflamatory to
> post to build, administer and then advertise 'how much  cooler' a rival
> club is than Progsoc, on the Progsoc mailing list.

I don't really see the issue. I'm a ProgSoc member and I've done 
something cool that is very highly related to computer programming that 
others might be interested in participating in, so I tell people who 
might be interested about it. I've had five ProgSoc members join 
ProgClub, and I'm pretty happy about that.

> Could also be said
> likewise about Daniel mentioning your posts are spam, but considering it
> wasn't an invalid point it certainly didn't deserve the mega-reaction it
> did.

I got called a "spammer" after mentioning my new club *twice*. Once in 
an announcement, and then once approximately a month later when I had 
some news about some new features. It was completely unfair.

> Like Chris I don't know what you want, unless it's to abuse or exact
> revenge on the Society which is purely vindictive and leads me to question
> why you want to be associated with ProgSoc anyway.

I care a lot about ProgSoc, and I've been involved with it for long 
enough to know how drastically it changes its "flavour" over the years 
as university students come and go. I pine for the "good old days" of 
ProgSoc when it was a bastion for hardcore systems programmers, and I'm 
hoping that one day we see a return to those days.

I've donated over half of my net worth to ProgSoc, you won't find a 
member who has been more financially committed to the club than I have 
been. I've donated the vast majority of ProgSoc's library, and been an 
active participant on the list and the wiki for years.

> You mentioned before to me that ProgClub isn't intended as a
> satire/flame/rant, that it's a practical business venture, but surely
> you can see that advertising it like you have could objectively be
> seen otherwise. You're a good programmer and have undertaken
> successful business ventures before... why not instead channel
> that talent towards something that will make money without
> unintentionally angering people? Or, advertise off the board.
> If it's not a satire, and just a business venture, then it shouldn't
> matter right? Because I don't think anyone from ProgSoc is jumping
> on the proverbial bandwagon.

Well, I've instituted the "first rule of ProgClub", so I won't be 
sending any more advice of what ProgClub is up to to the ProgSoc list, 
since there are some people who don't like the idea of that (although I 
think that's pretty unreasonable, I'll go along with it).

ProgClub isn't a "business venture", it's a not-for-profit club with a 
pretty clear mandate to empower programmers by providing information and 
services, and to serve as a collaborative platform for open-source projects.

As for ProgClub's relationship to ProgSoc, I would be very pleased if 
ProgSoc took the list of points on the "Why ProgClub is cooler than 
ProgSoc" page and considered them its "TODO" list.

> Rants make people feel awkward, and I feel badly for the Society
> having to participate in two of these myself over 'ProgClub', this
> being the second if you count it. Well the trolls have become bold
> and numerous, and people are starting to go by ferry. All the
> current registered members can see these posts, and it encourages
> people to just avoid ProgSoc -- including me.

Yeah, it's always a shame when shit flares up on-list.

As for ProgClub, like I said when I announced it, I don't think it takes 
anything away from anyone, and I don't understand why people can't just 
be happy for me about it. I think it's a pretty significant achievement, 
and I'm excited about its future.









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